So it goes

[threemonkeys]

"A science-fiction writer who lied about being a science-fiction writer because he got more money that way. He wrote whole novels in baby talk, with sixth-grade drawings in them, and third-grade science, and he knew better."

They don't name him explicitly but that is how Niven and Pournelle describe Kurt Vonnegut in their Inferno. I don't think they like him much. I do. I like him even when I agree with the above analysis. I have read most of his work and have never failed to be amazed how such simple seeming prose can have such an impact. It is clever and funny and speaks to the condition of its time. Strangely enough however, until today, I had not read one of his best known works Cat's Cradle. I can only put it down to lack of availability. This is the book that contains ice-nine, one of the most accessible and fascinating pieces of fictional science ever. Otherwise Cat's Cradle is like the other books Vonnegut wrote around the same time - clever and funny and speaks to the condition of its time.

Comments

[benpayne.livejournal.com]

I absolutely love Vonnegut. Cat's Cradle is my favorite after Slaughterhouse 5. Starts off slow perhaps but the Bokononist philosophy is great...

[threemonkeys.livejournal.com]

Yes, Bokononism is very cool. So naturally it was something else that Niven & Pournelle didn't like.

[thoatherder.livejournal.com]

Well Niven has a lot of third grade science in his books, especially his ideas about natural selection.

He expresses the idea in a lot of his works that addiction problems are temporary from a societal viewpoint because everyone who is addicted doesn't have kids, and so addictive personalities are bred out of the race.

This is while his characters drink alcohol like fish and, in the earlier novels and stories, smoke prodigiously.

Pournelle just has third rate politics and still thinks "The Bell Curve" is an important book.

Grrrrrrr...

Niven told me that he was unlikely to write a sequel to Inferno as he didn't like the central character very much. Apparently according to Pornelle's web site they are working on a sequel right now.

In some alternative universe there is a series of books by Niven and Gerrold instead of Niven and Pournelle, I wonder what they are like.

[threemonkeys.livejournal.com]

Attacks on Vonnegut aside, I liked Inferno but I cringe at the idea of a sequel. They don't have it in them anymore to do a good job.

If The Flying Sorcerers is an indication of what a Niven & Gerrold partnership in an alternative universe would be like then puns and bad jokes may cause their lynching before too many got written.

[thoatherder.livejournal.com]

So why don't Niven and Pournelle have it in them to do a good job? Pournelle is 73 this year, and Niven is 68, so they aren't too old to be turning out fiction. What's made their writing turn to custard?

Here's the quote from Pournelle's website re Inferno 2

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

A good day. Niven was over and we hiked to the top of the hill, about 3 miles and 800 feet up, then our usual Wednesday lunch. Inferno 2 goes well. It's a more serious book than the first Inferno, but it's still fun. It's going well.

[threemonkeys.livejournal.com]

It is an interesting question. I have pretty much been judging by the output rather than questioning motivations. Thinking about it though, certainly it is clear that these days they are more motivated to get their political agenda out there. Pournelle always was that way, but Niven has moved to join him - I don't mean his politics have changed, just the motivation to push it at us. I suspect this means they have lost interest in things like character or nifty ideas - you know anything that might merely entertain rather than get the message across.

[thoatherder.livejournal.com]

Their last collaboration was "Burning Tower" in 2005, I haven't read it, but I'd be surprised if it had much in the way of right wing overt politics in it (there will always be the underlying assumptions in the text).

I did read "The Gripping Hand" and found it almost incomprehensible in much the same way as the "Integral Trees" series. The it seemed to be a massively twisting plot with not a lot going for it.

They wrote copious notes for "Mote" their first collaboration, later books seem to require that the reader have access to their working notes in order to follow what is going on.

We can see Niven's decline in his solo works, Pournelle has stopped writing solo, so a decline can't be seen there, but it may be possible that Niven does most of the writing these days ...

Regardless buying the novels is not satisfying.

[threemonkeys.livejournal.com]

The politics observation was mainly triggered by the Draco's tavern collection I read recently where it was quite easy to track the increasing political motivation behind the writing.